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Low-quality content on Lichess TV

@CSKA_Moscou said in #5:
> how is blitz better than bullet? apparently its slowness would make it better than the diabolical bullet. However, do many people on Lichess TV want to watch 5+3 or 5+0? the most popular control time is 3+0 and 3+2, this blitz would be crazy in OTB, not online. the real OTB blitz cannot prevail online because people are online precisely to see other things. it's a gladiator show, people like these shows, bullet is violence on the chessboard, there are rarely draws, a lot of emotion for the spectator and less anxiety. in blitz, spectators wonder what their favorite will play, worry about time, each move... in bullet you watch monsters. so if an "angelic" generation doesn't want to see that, don't watch and don't judge a good part (majority) of the community that likes bullet. When you watch a horror film, it's to be scared, not to relax or educate yourself like you will watching a documentary. bullet is not chess but ONLINE chess, the audience of streamers and celebrities don't want to spend their whole lives in front of the TV, so bullet is a useful alternative. As for the positions that Pushwood is talking about, I tell you from my own experience that it is because there is no more confidence when you play bullet, you do not have to trust your opponent, how dare you so risky to leave an opportunity for victory by flagging? some like me don't care about the rating but want this kind of emotion. who will have time to press the draw button? It's not a child's fight, but an event where this kind of low blow is allowed, it's like wrestling. find out about the lefong and the traps, it's even worse

I was not judging bullet players, nor bullet spectators. It is fine that many people like horrors, but you should not show horrors on a TV screen in a shopping mall.
When speaking of low-quality bullet games, I mean what we usually see there on the screen, often the end of hyperbullet games. (Hyperbullet is also rated as bullet.) When the moves in itself (apart from the clock) do not make sense, it is low-quality from this point of view.
As far as I know, Magnus has not played there much, recently. What we see there with both players left on a few seconds might be a good spectacle or an attractive computer game (how to make most moves in a given time without spoiling the game), but has little to do with chess. So why should it be the prevailing default content on the Lichess TV? If people want to play bullet or watch it, why not, it is their choice.
@king-Monti said in #7:
> I personally feel that this is an unnecessary rant, If you dislike bullet and don't call it chess that's fine (Carlsen .. Hikaru and top grandmasters don't have a problem with it anyways). Showing the "top rated games" on lichess which usually happens to be bullet is in no way influencing the play of people. It's bullet flagging will always exist, I don't know if you've watched the Armageddon series (yes Kramnik was in it). Bottom line is if you think that flagging is unethical because you praise some "purist chess" principle then don't play sudden death time controls.
> For the lichess TV issue, lichess has made it easy ... you can choose what you want to see... bullet.. blitz.. rapid... chess960.. ultra bullet.. whatever it is.. even the blitz you're suggesting it's still just 3+0 we'll end up seeing and like you said with the bullet a good number of them will still end in time scrambles..
> Nothing lichess can do about that.

I do not agree that the Lichess TV would not influence the play of people. High-rated players might be perceived like role models, at least within the realm of chess, as players. (If only because many others also want to be high-rated.) They are not necessarily perceived as role models as people (outside the board), but it is not needed for my argument. When popular politicians behave violently, the society typically becomes more violent. When influential politicians steal, it becomes more acceptable in the society. (True, the influence might work in both ways in many situations.)
Lichess could change the algorithm so that the TV would show a bit less bullet, or people could choose in their settings. (The first option is simpler, the second would be more attractive.)
@RealDavidNavara said in #12:
> Lichess could change the algorithm so that the TV would show a bit less bullet, or people could choose in their settings. (The first option is simpler, the second would be more attractive.)

But you can literally CHOOSE to watch anything other than bullet... why is this even a topic... it's literally there on the lichess TV page... you can watch blitz.. rapid... classical.. chess 960... I usually watch rapids when I'm working on my rapid... I watch bullet for the fun of it.. your request is complicated and too self centered.. entirely based off your hate for modernity in chess and worshipping the olden days chess purists .. the people that from your statements seem to be the "ethical ones"
It is like Kramnik complaining about getting flagged in titled Tuesday ( extremely hilarious).. there's literally a rating there .. win or lose, if you decide to resign that's on you good game.. you decide to find a way to win that's on you too.. as long as you don't cheat or do anything illegal. Heck even in rapids when it comes down to the wire it turns to a total bloodbath too. As long as rating is on the line there is a desire to not lose. Sure to you and some other people these are online ratings and are insignificant. For others they feel differently about it.. for some their pride is on the line. These are subjective and personal problems but it is in no way against the rule of chess.

Like I said before, if you want to watch rapids the option is there on the lichess TV page. There is absolutely no use ranting about it when you have a solution.
Re #13: Yes, I can choose, but when I start the Lichess page, there is a default game and quick moves automatically attract my attention at least for a while. Mostly I am not willing to watch any games, and even less so final seconds of bullet games.
Imagine that your TV always shows a silly but catchy advertisement between films, or even during them. Yes, you can turn the sound off for a while every time, but it feels a bit inconvenient. (Just to avoid misunderstanding, I do not claim bullet to be silly, nor Lichess TV to be an advertisement.)
My request is not complicated at all, it would suffice to adjust the bullet ratings in the algorithm, as the top bullet ratings are too high compared to the top blitz ratings. (And the TV shows the top games.) When the 94th player of the bullet leaderboard is higher rated than the 2nd player of the blitz leaderboard, as several hours ago, it is obvious that those ratings work differently. (I know that the lists only show sufficiently active players, but it is not so relevant here.)
My suggestion is not self-centered at all. If there is any golden medium ("center") between various time controls which would be compherensible and at the same time attractive for the most spectators, it is blitz, not bullet.
And your statement about my hate of modernity in chess is sheer nonsense, I have never claimed anything like that, nor do I feel like that. Personally I dislike quick bullet, but I do not hate it and do not mind other people playing it and watching it. To make another comparison, I do not drink milk, but do not mind that others drink it.
@RealDavidNavara said in #14:
> Re #13: Yes, I can choose, but when I start the Lichess page, there is a default game and quick moves automatically attract my attention at least for a while. Mostly I am not willing to watch any games, and even less so final seconds of bullet games.
> Imagine that your TV always shows a silly but catchy advertisement between films, or even during them. Yes, you can turn the sound off for a while every time, but it feels a bit inconvenient. (Just to avoid misunderstanding, I do not claim bullet to be silly, nor Lichess TV to be an advertisement.)
> My request is not complicated at all, it would suffice to adjust the bullet ratings in the algorithm, as the top bullet ratings are too high compared to the top blitz ratings. (And the TV shows the top games.) When the 94th player of the bullet leaderboard is higher rated than the 2nd player of the blitz leaderboard, as several hours ago, it is obvious that those ratings work differently. (I know that the lists only show sufficiently active players, but it is not so relevant here.)
> My suggestion is not self-centered at all. If there is any golden medium ("center") between various time controls which would be compherensible and at the same time attractive for the most spectators, it is blitz, not bullet.
> And your statement about my hate of modernity in chess is sheer nonsense, I have never claimed anything like that, nor do I feel like that. Personally I dislike quick bullet, but I do not hate it and do not mind other people playing it and watching it. To make another comparison, I do not drink milk, but do not mind that others drink it.
I second this. Coherent argument regarding the discrepancy between Bullet and Blitz ratings and its effect on what is shown on Lichess TV.
I don't watch myself, not anymore. The only other way to solve this might be to have different channels. Like one for Bullet, one for Blitz and one for Rapid / Classic. But i reckon that this is hard to implement.
I fully agree with David here.

I always found the "TV" feature to be rather useless, and never grasped the concept. Why would I ever want to watch a random game played by people I probably never heard of, with like a 30 secs or 1 min time control, often from the middle of the game so that you have no time to even adjust to the position...

Quite frankly I wasn't even fully aware that there were different "channels" to choose from. But then, following a broadcast seems so much more useful to me.

That's not saying following other people's games is complete nonsense. When I played in 4545 leagues, the games were usually watched by quite a number of people, who often were discussing the game in the spectators' chat.
@nadjarostowa said in #17:
> That's not saying following other people's games is complete nonsense. When I played in 4545 leagues, the games were usually watched by quite a number of people, who often were discussing the game in the spectators' chat.

Same here, watching a 4545 League or LoneWolf game is a completely different experience for me. Even if I'm the only spectator (more likely with LoneWolf), I still feel much more involved in the game.
@nadjarostowa said in #17:
> Quite frankly I wasn't even fully aware that there were different "channels" to choose from. But then, following a broadcast seems so much more useful to me.

Sounds like skill issue... it's like complaining about something that you didn't even fully understand...
Broadcast.. shows live chess games from ongoing tournaments (most are OTB but some are online too)
Lichess TV shows top games played on the server at a particular time, and just like I've stated before, there is a choice of time controls or chess variants to choose from to watch
@nadjarostowa said in #17:
> I always found the "TV" feature to be rather useless, and never grasped the concept. Why would I ever want to watch a random game played by people I probably never heard of, with like a 30 secs or 1 min time control, often from the middle of the game so that you have no time to even adjust to the position...

Because people are different, while I watch bullet sometimes to see random tricky opening ideas it's usually just entertainment for me and many others too..
Like I said earlier, when I'm working on my rapid or when I actually want to think and analyze a game in real time I switch to rapids on lichess TV... I keep it at bullet when I just want to be entertained or when I'm busy with something and just like hearing the sounds of the "lichess pieces" hehe.. lol..

I really don't understand David's point of seeing it as an advertisement, I think anytime you click on the lichess TV feature you should be certain of what you're looking for at that time.. let me relate this with an example, at this part of the world we use decoders and satellite dishes to watch TV channels. Since alot of these decoders don't have enough memory space they don't resume where you left them off, like 98% of decoders, so anytime you turn the TV on you're always greeted on the first channel, the user has the choice of switching to the channel of interest.
That's just how I see lichess TV, there are several time controls and variants to choose from they're just like those decoder channels, someone here said he doesn't see the point of watching 1 minute games, so no matter what happens he'll never click the "bullet" option on lichess TV... and that's also the same reason why that user will most likely always switch to the "rapid" option if the user swings that way.

I get David's argument, but honestly it's just weird knowing that you can literally watch any time control you want
@king-Monti said in #19:
> I get David's argument, but honestly it's just weird knowing that you can literally watch any time control you want

If you can "literally watch any time control you want" then what exactly is the problem if lichess switches to showing blitz by default? You will always be able to "literally watch any time control you want", including the so called "modernity in chess" - the bullet chess.

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